Author Interview: Writing an Urban Fantasy Romance Series with Becca Fogg

*For the full video interview, please go here.

Susan (S): Hey everybody! Welcome back. Happy Thursday to you all. We have a special guest this week that I’m very excited about. Everybody, meet Becca. She is one of my authors, and she is with us today to talk about plotting a series, specifically plotting an urban fantasy romance series for you. Now I do have – I pulled up your bio and I’m going to read it because I cannot memorize that much to save my life, but for all of you that have not heard of Becca, she is phenomenal. She is an American author who primarily writes fantasy romance. She lives in New England with her husband and two children, and when she isn’t writing scandalous plot twists and pant-worthy spice – which I can attest to – she enjoys escape rooms, reality competition shows and spending entirely too much time on TikTok. So, thank you for being with me today. 

Becca (B): Thank you for having me. 

S: First and foremost, congratulations on the launch of your final book! I’m so excited for you. It came out this past Tuesday (July 25th), so everybody that is interested now can not only get your books but they can get the entire series all in one go. 

B: It’s a completed series. It’s a thrilling and terrifying experience all at once. 

S: I’m sure this is an insane week for you. Launch weeks are always crazy. How does it feel?

B: You know, it’s one of those things where I’d had the series and the idea in my head for so long. I posted about this on TikTok before, where it’s like I had the idea and I had written about three-quarters of the first book for like ten years and it just sort of sat in my head. I was just typing on my outlines and not really doing anything, so just getting the first book done was an accomplishment. It was a huge thing for me, and now I’ve got four of them and I actually wrote the whole series, and I’m just like, “But what do I do with this giant hole that’s now empty in my head?” I just need to fill it with something else, I guess? I don’t know, but it’s thrilling and terrifying all at once because it’s out there now. I can’t – I guess I can technically change it, but I don’t want to though, but it’s like, “Okay, here’s my child, so please love it.”

S: “Here’s my child.” So, this isn’t actually one of the questions I sent you, but I have a question sparked by that answer which is – so, I think a lot of people watching this can probably empathize with, “I’ve had this idea. I’ve played with it. I’ve outlined it. I’ve started it.” What was the final trigger moment or “Aha” moment or what have you where you were like, “I’m gonna do this - I’m gonna write this book.” 

B: Okay, so we’re gonna get really real, and as a recently postpartum person I’m gonna try really hard not to cry. I promise we’re gonna be okay. 

S: We can cry together. 

B: We’ll just sob together uncontrollably. I was postpartum; the pandemic had just hit. My son, I think was around two at the time, and I was just so overwhelmed. And when I – see, I’m gonna start crying – first started writing Duality, I wrote it because I needed an outlet for what I was going through in my life at the time. I just wanted to have something I could do that was for fun, and I lost myself a little bit. I think most mothers do. See, you’re totally going to start crying right now. I’m so sorry, please cut this later. Well, we’ll do it again when we’re not crying now that I’ve gotten it out. I really needed to find myself again. I wasn’t feeling like myself and going back to Jex and being her again meant that I could be as snarky and sassy as I wanted to be. I didn’t have to control my language, obviously. I didn’t have to dial it back. I could just be me - unfiltered as I wanted to be with as much caffeine in my system as possible, and relax. Like, relax all the walls and be myself again. That was really important to me. And it’s really funny because I have a little sister who’s also a first-time mom now, and she’s going through it, and it’s like, “What did you do to feel okay again?” I was like, “Well, I started publishing books. I don’t know if that’s right for you.”

S: Small goals, small goals. 

B: Maybe baby steps from that. Do you like crafts? Something a little simpler. But that was really what pushed me is, “We’re in the pandemic. He’s home 24/7. How do I – and I’m already grappling with all of these sort of like big feelings – how do I sort of find myself again? And I said, Well, I’m gonna go find Jex because you know, Jex is in a lot of ways, that outlet for me. 

S: I love it, and I think your readers love it as well. There is not a small amount of swearing, beautiful sexy scenes, and you know, I think we should get promoted by – not promoted, what’s the word I’m looking for? We should get Dr. Pepper ads. How often is Dr. Pepper mentioned in this book?

B: Just saying, I will gladly - I don’t have any cans with me right now - but if they want to sponsor me, I am open and willing. I’m very cheap; you can pay me in product. 

S: Oh my goodness. It’s wonderful when the editor can’t think of the word that she’s looking for. It’s like, “I’ll come up with all of the other words to try and convey what I mean.” It’s beautiful. For people that are watching this that are not familiar, tell us a little bit about your series. 

B: You mentioned before, it’s urban fantasy. It’s very spicy and very romance-forward, so if that’s typically not your thing in urban fantasy, then I’d still encourage you to give it a try but be aware that that exists. It is “Why-Choose,” meaning she has multiple love interests; she doesn’t pick between them. I’ve been calling it urban romantasy recently, which I feel like very perfectly fits it. But the premise – it’s a very standard urban fantasy style series. You know, the chosen one trope. She develops magic powers in the first series. In the first chapter, you learn that there’s this sort of underground magical system, magical world that she becomes part of and it’s all about her development, her finding her place in this world. I really enjoyed writing that piece of it and focusing on her because – that’s the other piece of it – people always want to sort of push it more into like a romance category, but at the end of the day, it’s a story about Jex and all the things that she goes through and her development and sort of like her finding herself and finding where she belongs in the world. And you see that in romance, but that’s a very core fantasy thing. I guess the long story is I have no idea how to categorize the book other than to call it urban romantasy and hope book people understand what I’m talking about. 

S: Well, you know, I think it’s going to be something where it’s – and we’ve talked about this – but genres, while you do generally want to pick one, the highest one. So yes, you can call this urban fantasy, yes you can call it fantasy. Yes, you can call this romance. Yes, you can call it “Why-Choose” romance. I mean, there’s so many things that go into that, but so much of what I talk to authors about is picking the highest one that best describes your book so that your readers can immediately know what they’re getting. But part of the evolution of that is new genres, new terms. So, you are sort of playing off of the,  I don’t want to call it new, but sort of the evolving popularity of romantasy, which is massive nowadays. And you’re just taking it one step further, which I think totally makes sense. 

B: It’s good too because I do feel like people can connect with it then. They understand they’re going to get that romance angle. I know that a lot of urban fantasy readers don’t like that. A lot of them do, just to be clear. But I want to be really abundantly clear what you’re going to get when you read the book. Just to readers in general, I make sure to put trigger warnings on things like that because I do think it’s really important for an author to explain what they can expect. That’s not something you always see, and I think we should be doing it more, frankly.

S: Oh yeah, for sure. And for readers, I think as long as you’re clear, like you said, there are a lot of people that like urban fantasy - just pure urban fantasy, which is awesome. But then there are other people that want a little bit more spice. I mean, Laurel K. Hamilton would not be where she is today if people didn’t want spice with their urban fantasy because I feel like she’s sort of the reigning queen of that entire [genre]. I don’t know anybody that doesn’t like urban fantasy and romance that hasn’t read Anita Blake, at least if they haven’t read the Mary Gentry series. If you are fans of lots of romantic partners, that one is on your list, 100 percent. 

So, as you wrote this story - and this is a question that from me that you and I have talked about - how much of this overarching series (story, plot, everything like that) did you know in the beginning versus what evolved? So, as a quick disclaimer, I think I mentioned this in the beginning, but I am Becca’s editor so I have been along for this beautiful journey and had the absolute pleasure and honor of nitpicking…I’m gonna call it nitpicking. 

B: In the best possible way, appreciated nitpicking.

S: …But getting to ask tons of questions, and that’s my favorite part of the process is like, “This is phenomenal. Here are my questions to make it even bigger and better.” So my question is: how much of the end story or the entire series was like as you had already plotted it or what you had an idea for, versus the evolution of writing and editing and revising?

B: You know, I am an epic plotter. My outlines are extensive, like down to blocking fight scenes and things like that. It’s a movie in my head, and when I go to write it, it’s the last thing I’ve got. I’m basically transcribing what the thing in my head says. I really had a strong idea of what I wanted the series to do, how I wanted it to go. Over the years, I had changed my outlines, like originally it was going to be five books, then I changed it to four and reorganized some things. And even when we were writing, and when I was writing it and we were going through the books themselves, I did make some fairly big changes, just like on my own…

S: A few.

B: With your helpful input, very helpful input. But even when I was drafting it, I ended up reorganizing things, moving things to other books. Like, there were a couple of bigger scenes in a second book. (SPOILER ALERT.) I wanted, for example, Derek and Jex to be a little bit more resolved before we go into the finale of the second book, and it just didn’t have space for that. The book was so ungodly long. And I know that you tell me they don’t care, but I care. I wanted them to be in a better place to make that fall a little bit deeper. Like it wasn’t bad enough, right? But I wanted them to be a little bit more forgiving, and I just didn’t have the space for that. I ended up moving the scene that I had written for that into the third book, which is when you see them reconcile, and I turn it into a point of reconciliation, [and] gave it a little more depth. I also wanted her relationship with Nicky to be a little more solid in the second book going into the third book. Again, there wasn’t space for it. So, even in the moment, I’m having to move things and rearrange things. My OCD brain just went, “Oh god, do we have to do that? Do we really have to?” And I’m going, “Yes, it’s 500-something pages.”

S: It wasn’t a small book; it was not a small book. I’m going to warn you out there, viewers and future readers, Becca is known for her massive and gut-wrenching cliffhangers. And you guys have the awesome ability to speed-read through all of these books. I had to edit this and go, “Okay, do you know what happens next because you can’t leave me like this?!”

B: And the whole conversation of, “Tell me. No, don’t tell me. Just a little tell me. Just tell me a little. What if this?” And then I have to go, “Mm, do you really want to know?” And you’d go, “No.” 

S: I can’t sleep. I need to know that it ends okay, but you can’t tell me too much because I want to go into the edit blind. I want to give you my genuine reactions. But also, I need to know. Just tell me; I need to know.

B: We were talking about before – you’ll make comments on things that are bigger moments, and in my head I’m going, “I need this to happen.” And you’re like, “Do you, though?” And I’m like, “Yes I do, and I can’t tell you why. But I do. I definitely do.” 

And I remember, even all the way in the first book (SPOILER ALERT), we had a conversation because you wanted the cure to be more menacing in the first book, and you wanted them to be more fighting-in-the-streets type thing. And I didn’t necessarily disagree with you, but I needed the Abram to be holding them back. I needed them to not have open war yet because that happens later. And I needed Jex to be able to grow in her own little safe bubble for a little bit. You made that comment, and I said, “Yes, but, do they need to? Do they really need to?”

S: Which I feel like is our whole relationship. “Yes, but…” And then, “Yes, I see that…yes, but…” But you know, I think that’s an important thing, which is part of the evolution of a really good relationship between an author and an editor is the trust of…You know, we’re both enjoying the process, we both have a sort of unique vision for where this is going, but it’s not a bad thing when it like, “Well, what about this? Or what about this?” You have full control because you’re like, “I hear you, but no.” And I’m like, “Okay.” Then as long as you’re going into it fully armed with this is not what you wanted to do and you understand why, I’m cool with it because then you know when your readers come to you, and they’re like, “But, why aren’t they fighting each other here?” You can be like, “Aha, just wait.” 

B: “Are they, though? Maybe they don’t. I don’t know.” That’s always been one of the things I’ve always really enjoyed working with you and one of the reasons why I kept working with you was that you would make these really great comments, and they would force me to think about it, and sit with it for a little bit and sort of really decide whether or not I wanted to – not disregard – but I wanted to say I understand. And you were always really great about just letting me go and do my own thing. Although, sometimes you were just wrong because I’m going to make all of those Final Destination comments that I want to make. 

S: And you know what, that’s fine. I actually had that question, for those of you watching, I generally tell my authors to hold back on a lot of pop culture references because you never quite know what’s going to land with your readers, what people have seen or watched, and the hope is that these books will be insanely popular for five, 10, 20, million years, and you never know how long those pop culture references are going to be relevant. So, I made that comment to Becca, and it was very funny because I was proven incorrect by one of her betas, who was like, “I love Final Destination.” And I was like, “Okay, the 2000’s – or is it late ‘90s?”

B: The line was, “I trust you about as much as the safety cables on a Final Destination logging truck.” And you were like, “Are you sure you want to put this in?” And I was like, “I hear you.” I typically will listen, and I have, over the series, done a lot less on the pop culture references. But then, when the book came out, and the very first popular highlight I got in the book was the Final Destination line. 

S: That’s right, that’s right.  It was a reader, it wasn’t a beta reader.

B: It wasn’t a beta reader. It was literally people highlighting as they read the book, and that was the very first popular highlight I got that was like, “Well, I’m glad I kept it.”

S: Hey, editors can be wrong. You won’t hear me say it, but editors can be wrong. 

B: Okay, just when you think later, just loop Susan [and] that line, again and again. This is being recorded, right?

S: It is, and unfortunately, I feel like my other authors are going to watch this and send it to me and be like, “You said you could be wrong.” I’ll be like, “You have no proof, you have no proof.” 

One of the things I wanted to ask you about is: So your book is “why-choose,” which means there are multiple love interests, which means there are a quite literal crap ton of characters in this book. And I’m not even just talking about the love interests, but I’m talking about, you have different factions, you have an entire world. What was it like not only coming up with that, but balancing that? I know you said you’re a huge plotter, but even for somebody’s who is a plotter, that’s a lot.

B: Yeah, it’s one of those things where you have to really think it through and sort of dwell on who is important and who isn’t. And there have been times where I’ve changed people, and sort of combined people. But, it’s important that you’re thinking that every character has a purpose, so you know that if you’ve put them there, you know you need them for a reason. But then, you also need to fully actualize that person, right? They have likes, dislikes, character traits, physicality, all of that stuff, that has to go into thinking of this as a person. Especially with my love interests, so many times you see – especially in “why-choose” – where they tend to be a little bit cardboard. And, I love “why-choose”; this is totally not a critique or criticism of the genre as a whole. But, I really wanted to treat my love interests as main characters, give them very unique, very interesting personalities in and of themselves. [I wanted to] give them interesting and unique dynamics with Jex because they each have different relationships with her and that sort of plays into the broader discussion of themes in the series. But once you have your cast of characters, and your general idea of where you want to go, it grows from there. And it helps that I am incredibly messy and complicated as a person. So I can have my outlet for all of that in the book, and not in real life. I can have them fighting with Seb and Frank and Debbie, and you know, I can put them all there and have them work together, and sort of play that through its natural course, and that’s what it becomes. So, that made absolutely no sense, but I hope it did.

S: It made sense to me. Granted, I’m not the one attempting to do it. I get to sit on the sidelines. No, that totally makes sense, and it’s a unique perspective, I think especially because so much of your characters come from you, right? And I agree. I’m also a huge fan of “why-choose,” but I do agree, there are a lot of books out there that really just focus on the intimate aspect and not necessarily on creating whole, unique characters. And I love having a whole heaping of both, let’s be real, we gotta embrace both, which we did for this series, and I’m here for it. We actually had that discussion, which is this author that you’re watching right here, right now fellow viewers, asked if it was too spicy. And I gotta say, I’ve never been more disappointed. My answer was no, and for those of you that watch this who get to Book Four, come talk to me, because I would love to see if anybody agrees or disagrees with me. 

B: Well, remember I’m coming at this from the frame of like urban fantasy readers don’t like heavy spice. So I’m like, “Oh, god what am I doing?”

S: I think you kind of threw that out the window with Book One, so you know, once you’ve sort of dug yourself into that hole, let’s see if we can get to China. I’m here for it, like let’s go all the way. But I love it.

B: I remember there’s a conversation at the end of Book Two, like when we were doing this, and I was like, “It’s gonna get spicier again.” And you were like, “That’s okay, that’s fine.” And I was like, “Are you sure?” And you were like, “Yes, trust me. I can take it.” 

S: Well, you never know. Some people have different lines of what they’re wanting to read or are comfortable editing or anything like that. And I’m here for it. So that was a ton of fun because then obviously you get attached to characters. You know how much I got attached to your characters because I will say that Becca enjoys torturing her characters and I had to have some frank conversations where I’m like, “Don’t do this to my beloved.” I’m not gonna say names, but how dare you? How dare you? So that was a ton of fun, and I’m sure that was a ton of fun on your end, too to write as well. 

B: It’s always fun when the person you’re working with and who’s doing like edits or if you’ve got a beta reader are really invested in it and then you get the comments. And they’re like, “Nooo!” And you’re like, “Mm, yes!” 

S: So you’ve talked about plotting the series, having sort of an intricate worldbuilding, lots of characters, everything like that. So, as kind of my last question: what is your advice for authors that are either starting out or trying to do this or branching into a multi-book series from writing just that one singular book?

B: The biggest thing I would say is just to sit down and start writing it. I feel like, especially if you’re a plotter, it can feel really restrictive that you [feel like] you need to know what you’re doing before you go into it. And although I typically feel the most comfortable doing that, at the end of the day, what you put onto the page could vary, so just start writing it. Just starting writing it. Just get something on paper. If you need to change it, be flexible with yourself because that is the hardest thing, I find is just sort of forcing your brain to stick it into the page. I’ll give you the perfect example of that. I have the second epilogue for this series that I still haven’t written, even though I’ve written the whole thing in my head and it’s not even that long. It’s probably going to be maximum 5,000 words. My brain is like, “Nope, we’re not doing that yet.” And it’s like, the book needs to happen. I don’t know, maybe by the time this publishes, there’ll be a second epilogue. Fingers crossed. Knock on wood! 

S: Here you go, now’s your deadline because you’ve promised this to these people. 

B: Now I’m gonna have to do it, I promised it. 

S: You can do this. I believe in you. 

B: But yeah, so that would be my thing. When you’re doing all the planning, when you’re thinking about it, when you’re dwelling on it, don’t forget to actually do the thing. It’s hard not to think about that. And I’ll give you an example that I used to give to my friend, that I gave to my friend once in law school, which is you can’t be too timid to try. I gave her the example of when you’re fishing. Like, when I was a kid, I used to go fishing with my dad, and you know, fish are squirmy, and kind of gross and they’re slimy and they look at you with the big eye and you’re a little girly about it. I remember my dad one time telling me, “Just grab the fish.” Like, “stop squealing and grab the fish.” And sometimes, you just want to grab the fish. You know, just stick it on the paper. Stop being so squeamish about what it’s going to look like. 

S: I love that. I love everything about that, and now I need a shirt that’s going to say, “Just grab the fish,” and literally no one’s going to to know what that is, but that will make me happy. 

B: I think we’re gonna attribute it to Becca’s dad. 

S: Done. 100 percent. I am here for it. So, I lied to you. I said that was going to be my last question, and I have one more, so speaking of grabbing the fish and just getting it on the page, Obviously, there’s a lot that goes into revising and editing and sort of progress over perfection, especially when writing and plotting a series like this where things are changing literally every moment, it feels like: what advice would you give to people as they not only write and plot a series but as they try to edit and revise and make it all connect? Because you know, getting some of that feedback can be – and that’s coming from me – what advice would you give to those that are now in sort of the “I’m getting feedback” process? 

B: You want to take everything in. Make sure that you fully commit to the change, especially if it’s a big change. You have to really think through the full ramifications of that, especially if you’re in one of the earlier books. We made some bigger changes and I had made some bigger changes at the end of Book Three, and they were not what I had originally planned. And then I sort of got a push from you, like “No, you should keep it this way, even though it’s not what you planned.” And that was the right course of action. Ultimately, it became a much better book. But if I had stuck to it and said, “No, I don’t want to change it.” I think it probably wouldn’t have been as powerful and emotional. At the end of the day, you have to be flexible with yourself. You have to think it through and make sure that you are okay with that change, but also that you’re thinking forward and that you’re making that change for everything that comes after it. Because if you’re not thinking about the things that come after it, then you’re going to get to the very end of the book and be like, “Oh no, I killed him. It was important.” 

S: Ghosts? Are we cool with ghosts? How do we feel?

B: Resurrection? This is paranormal. Supernatural stuff. 

S: Zombies? Oh my gosh, that would be hilarious. That’s awesome. 

B: So, that would be it. Be flexible, but think about the ramifications. 

S: I love it. I agree. Editor-approved. Not that you need my approval, but I totally approve. But, thank you so much for talking with me today. Thank you for talking about your series and your books and just your awesome passion, and just creative and insane ideas have always been fun to work with and I know the readers are going to love them. The Duality series – you can now get all four books all at once. They’re all out now. You should go check them out now. Happy reading to everybody and thank you so much again. 

B: Thank you for having me.